Curse

Ariena Najea · Jan 06, 2009, 08:51 PM // 20:51

As a long-time Monk player, something inside me dies whenever I see a "red bars go up" build that isn't meant to be used in conjunction with a Prot build. Most effective Prot builds take a lot of experience to run well, even in PvE, which is why I've decided to post this.

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[build prof=Mo/W name="Mo/W SY! Bonder" divine=12+1+3 protection=9+1+3 smiting=9+1+3 healing=3 pve][Blessed Signet]["Save Yourselves!"]["For Great Justice!"][Healing Touch][Selfless Spirit][Life Bond][Unyielding Aura][Balthazar's Spirit][/build]

Equipment

Radiant Insignia
Three headpieces with superior runes as shown above
Attunement runes for remaining four armor pieces
Insightful Staff of Enchanting with "Hale and Hearty" inscription

How it Works

Setup - For the preliminary setup, remember to use the right headpiece to reap the maximum benefits of the maintained enchantments. Upon entering a zone, cast Balthazar's Spirit and Unyielding Aura on yourself. Then, cast Selfless Spirit and then Life Bond on all of the other party members. From this point on, stay behind the backline and out of fights. You want to be just close enough so that you do not drop bonds on the front/midliners.

Life Bond is maintained on all other party members through the use of Blessed Signet. Outside of battle, it is highly recommended that someone in the party brings [[Blood is Power] or at the very least [[Blood Ritual]. In battle, Balthazar's Spirit gives back energy when your party members are hit. Additionally, you gain a small amount of adrenaline each hit which is used to power "Save Yourselves!". Use "For Great Justice!" to charge this more quickly. In the event you begin taking damage, or suffer degen, use Healing Touch to regain health. If an ally dies, use Unyielding Aura to resurrect them and recast it. If an ally loses bonds, have them retreat slightly so that you may recast it. Do not enter aggro range of any foes to do this.

Why spend several skill slots to keep up SY! on a Monk, when it can be brought on a Warrior? Simple, this way the frontliner(s) gain the armor bonus, and can use more adrenaline to power damaging skills.

Calculations

Powering an eight-strike adrenal skill through Balthazar's Spirit sounds skeptical, but here is how it works. If you are unfamiliar with how adrenaline functions in terms of points, rather than strikes, I suggest you read this before continuing. At 13 Smiting Prayers, each hit causes you to gain 5 points of adrenaline. When FGJ! is up, this doubles to 10 points. It takes 200 points to charge SY!, which translates into 40 or 20 attacks to charge the skill, depending on whether FGJ! is up. SY! lasts from 4-6 seconds. Without FGJ!, this means that maintaining SY! requires taking 10 to 7 packets of damage per second. With FGJ!, maintaining SY! requires taking 5 to 4 packets of damage per second. This is not difficult, in fact when considering AoE damage, Hard Mode buffs, and taking multiple groups at once, you should have a nearly unlimited adrenaline pool. Amusingly enough, standing in AoE is now your friend.

There are many enchantments to be maintained in this build, but with BiP, a full 12-man party (Deep/Urgoz) can be covered (including the enchantments maintained on the bonder) between battles. Again, taking Blood Ritual will help this further, but this build can sustain itself as long as you spam Blessed Signet on recharge between fights.

Synergy

This build is meant to be accompanied by a pure healer. Ideally, this would consist of bringing [[Healer's Boon], [[Heal Party], and potentially [[Arcane Mimicry] for additional healing by stealing Unyielding Aura from the bonder. Hex and condition removal are important, because the bonder has room for none, nor should be close enough most of the time to be casting spells on allies.

Additionally, a build that supports the party with enchantments is beneficial, to ensure cover enchantments to prevent the bonds from being stripped. Bonds being stripped means less in-battle energy and adrenaline, and shuts down the bonder. You don't need much defensive support other than the bonder and a healing monk (or restoration Ritualist if you prefer), so taking someone with [[Strength of Honor] for frontliners fulfills this need, and increases damage as well. Orders spells also work well, although note that [[Dark Fury] will not affect the adrenaline gain of the bonder.

Counters

As previously mentioned, enchantment removal is deadly to this build if not properly prepared for. Cover enchantments are a must for areas with enchantment removal. The other counter to this build is adrenaline denial, such as Soothing. Just have something kill the spirit and you're all set.

This build was originally conceived for The Deep HM. If you should use it there, be aware that the room in which enchantments are stripped and furthermore you cannot use enchantments renders this build not-good. Just bring a standard tank, and some other way of clearing the room that doesn't require much healing or protting. Bringing a [[Painful Bond] Spirit Tower Ritualist works well for clearing what you can't sweep, and [[Wanderlust] works great for the elite. [[Signet of Ghostly Might] works well too if the Ritualist brings [[You Move Like a Dwarf!].

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As a side note, if I see this in any team build with a "way" at the end, I will personally find those responsible and make them suffer. If you think you know how to improve on this, be sure to post, I'm always looking for ways to make my builds more ridiculous.

MirkoTeran · Jan 06, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

The only question I have is why. Why would you trade full bar for something that can be put on just a few slots on war or para with same efficiency (or even better imo, as it doesn't rely on enchantments).

Xx Da Best Xx · Jan 06, 2009, 09:31 PM // 21:31

This could be of SOME use, by why not just do what monks are supposed to do? itd be a lot more efficient. I dont think that whole bar is worth it just to use 1 skill...

Ariena Najea · Jan 06, 2009, 09:48 PM // 21:48

The answer to both your questions lies in Life Bond. Most bonding builds can't do much of anything outside of keeping their bonds up. This just makes typical bonding builds more efficient, being able to maintain SY! is just an added bonus. Life Bond by itself prevents massive amounts of damage, and in tandem with SY! does even more. As for why not just using SY! on a Warrior or Paragon, that was explained in the "How it Works" section.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretentious Name

This could be of SOME use, by why not just do what monks are supposed to do? itd be a lot more efficient.

I'm willing to bet money that you are not an experienced PvE Monk player. Nothing wrong with that, just don't make blanket statements about "what monks are supposed to do." Obviously the purpose of a defensive Monk is to keep the party alive using heals and prots. This build does exactly that with horrifying effectiveness, and SY! is icing on the cake.

Napalm Flame · Jan 06, 2009, 10:04 PM // 22:04

What you say about a prot bar requiring more skill to play is incorrect in my opinion. Heal bars require redbarring, and bonder bars are RIDICULOUSLY easy to play. Preprotting is where all the skill is required, and even that's easy with prot bars.

Ariena Najea · Jan 06, 2009, 10:34 PM // 22:34

That bonder bars are so simple to play is why I decided to post this.

I didn't say Prot bars require more skill, just that they do require skill. Both pre-protting and healing bars are not that hard, but are still difficult to play as a new Monk.

realtalk916 · Jan 06, 2009, 11:10 PM // 23:10

i dont like it, i might not be the ont to judge, cause i dont monk well, but sy and fgj, if ur tryna keep it up, i think ur gonna need a form of an IAS or sumthing

keep SY with the imba's

cbx103 · Jan 06, 2009, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by realtalk916

i dont like it, i might not be the ont to judge, cause i dont monk well, but sy and fgj, if ur tryna keep it up, i think ur gonna need a form of an IAS or sumthing

keep SY with the imba's

no offence mate, but you have not understood this build.
the monk is building adrenalin by redirecting damage to himself. he is not attacking. therefore, having SY on a character that stays completly out of battle, is imho a good idea

Zokocow · Jan 06, 2009, 11:31 PM // 23:31

I like the originality and thinking outside the box. +1 in my book.

I'd be interested to hear where you've applied this other than the deep and what sort of team builds could utilize this SY Bonder.

Saraneth · Jan 06, 2009, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

Simple, this way the frontliner(s) gain the armor bonus, and can use more adrenaline to power damaging skills.

-From this point on, stay behind the backline and out of fights. You want to be just close enough so that you do not drop bonds on the front/midliners.

-Hex and condition removal are important, because the bonder has room for none, nor should be close enough most of the time to be casting spells on allies.

Sounds a little contradictory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

...this build can sustain itself as long as you spam Blessed Signet on recharge between fights.

Might have trouble using blessed sig in the Deep's scorpion aspect room, as you stand the chance of being warped/interrupted mid-cast.

On another note, have you tried to see if wielding a furious wep affects the adren gain off of the dmg from Life Bond and the bonus from Balth Spirit? I know it alters the adren gain on skills like Lion's Comfort, but I'm not sure about Balth Spirit.

Vazze · Jan 07, 2009, 12:35 AM // 00:35

If it is so easy to maintain SY, then there is no reason to stay away from battle: you will have +100 armor too and at least you can put back lost enchants quickly. Unyielding is a waste, especially if you are far away, as it is not radar range anymore. Speccing into healing for the sake of a self-heal is a waste of attrib if you stay close to healer. Selfless spirit cuts down the boring start but it has no contribution to the build. The rest of the bar is a good idea though, that is if there is no massive enchant removal (like disenchant spirits and such).

Napalm Flame · Jan 07, 2009, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

If it is so easy to maintain SY, then there is no reason to stay away from battle: you will have +100 armor too and at least you can put back lost enchants quickly. Unyielding is a waste, especially if you are far away, as it is not radar range anymore. Speccing into healing for the sake of a self-heal is a waste of attrib if you stay close to healer. Selfless spirit cuts down the boring start but it has no contribution to the build. The rest of the bar is a good idea though, that is if there is no massive enchant removal (like disenchant spirits and such).

You haven't quite understood the benefit of UA. You stay close to the main team in order to resbot people and for the heal benefit. Also, healing touch isn't really needed, but at 16DF it's kinda hard to turn down the huge divine favour bonus for a self heal.

Ariena Najea · Jan 07, 2009, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zokocow

I'd be interested to hear where you've applied this other than the deep and what sort of team builds could utilize this SY Bonder.

I'm still messing around with this in different areas, so far I have yet to find an eight-man area in which this doesn't work effectively. Once I get to Vanquishing the six-man areas, we'll see how well it works there.

This build was conceived to work in tandem with a number of guild/alliance members and a couple of heroes going into the Deep. We are generally pretty casual, and as such don't spend too long working with synergy between builds outside of the Monks. Last time we went in, we had everything from a pre-nerf [[Angelic Bond] frontline Paragon to Fire Nukers. This build works most effectively against large number of enemies due to insane damage reduction, and so works best with teams that are constantly fighting rather than taking time between fights to ready a spike.

If you are looking to use this in conjunction with heroes, I suggest bringing some [[Smiter's Boon] Monks perhaps with the new [[Ray of Judgment] or Necro heroes running [[Discord] spam. Note that using minions with this bonder build negatively affects performance by reducing the energy and adrenaline the bonder receives, as well as wasting skill slots on having a minion wall. Bone Fiends may work as long as the MM stays far enough back so that all of the aggro is on the party.

The damage mitigation of this build also makes it viable for PUGs, as you could potentially heal even the most incompetent team with just yourself bonding and a hero healing. Just make sure no one is bringing skills that will disenchant and remove Life Bond.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraneth

Sounds a little contradictory.

My apologies for not being clear. Frontliner means essentially anyone attacking with a melee weapon, or someone tanking. The backline typically consists of Monks, other healers, and other support characters such as a BiP/Orders Necro or something similar that does not directly participate in fights. The midline is everything else, and for this build, the backline should position themselves as if they were midliners. The bonder then takes the position of backliner, far enough to be out of the enemy's range but still close enough to maintain (though not recast) bonds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraneth

Might have trouble using blessed sig in the Deep's scorpion aspect room, as you stand the chance of being warped/interrupted mid-cast.

Missing a single [[Blessed Signet] mid-battle is not a problem, although the warping can be a pain. In my experience, I've been able to keep clear of the mobs by in that area despite the warp by having other party members bodyblock when we all get up, even the casters work since they are Life Bonded and have +100 armor. After some sweeping, rushing the aspect helps as well, you can take on many groups using this build and still not die. Once the aspect is dead, the bonder monk is no longer in any danger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraneth

On another note, have you tried to see if wielding a furious wep affects the adren gain off of the dmg from Life Bond and the bonus from Balth Spirit? I know it alters the adren gain on skills like Lion's Comfort, but I'm not sure about Balth Spirit.

I'm not sure, although it's a simple test it would require time I'd rather not spend for the small benefits. You'd only get any benefits from this when facing the remainder of a small group, at which point you don't need SY! up constantly anyways. Furthermore, I'd argue that the extra energy from the staff setup outweighs the benefits of using a martial weapon and focus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

If it is so easy to maintain SY, then there is no reason to stay away from battle: you will have +100 armor too and at least you can put back lost enchants quickly. Unyielding is a waste, especially if you are far away, as it is not radar range anymore. Speccing into healing for the sake of a self-heal is a waste of attrib if you stay close to healer. Selfless spirit cuts down the boring start but it has no contribution to the build. The rest of the bar is a good idea though, that is if there is no massive enchant removal (like disenchant spirits and such).

SY! only affects other party members, so running in without the armor buff and without the Life Bond benefits would be suicide. You'll likely have the lowest HP of the party, so enemies in range will prefer to target you first. As for the elite skill, this build really doesn't need one. Unyielding is a perk, and allows for an easy res after things are safe. Good for areas like the Deep where there are not morale boosts, and the only way to recharge [[res signet] is by using a Powerstone. As for other hard res skills, I'd rather a couple people bring [[Rebirth] and not use skill slots on other res skills such as [[resurrection chant] or others. [[Selfless Spirit] deserves a spot for heavy enchantment removal areas especially, where skills like [[Chillblains] are common. As for [[Healing Touch], why bother the healer when you can mostly take care of yourself? If you prefer, think of most of the skills on my suggested bar as optionals. The only skills you need to make this work are [[Life Bond], [[Balthazar's Spirit], [[Blessed Signet], and [[Save Yourselves]. Apart from the full bar posted in my opening post, the only other skill I had seriously considered when making this build originally was [[Extinguish], but I decided to drop it in lieu of Healing Touch. Furthermore, you'll note by looking at the attributes that the only speccing into Healing Prayers done were six of the remaining seven points. If you are interested in why I chose the 12/9/9/3 setup, look at all of the linked skills and it should be apparent I chose these for meeting breakpoints when used with the appropriate headpiece. The whole point of this bonder is bar compression and efficiency for the rest of the party, by only needing two healers even for the most difficult areas, and by freeing up the adrenaline of the frontliners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Napalm Flame

You haven't quite understood the benefit of UA. You stay close to the main team in order to resbot people and for the heal benefit. Also, healing touch isn't really needed, but at 16DF it's kinda hard to turn down the huge divine favour bonus for a self heal.

Essentially this. You can easily run in if needed to res in an emergency, by running within caster range, dropping UA, and running back out. The heal benefit does essentially nothing for the bonder, but works wonders when used with a [[Healer's Boon] Monk as described in my first post. If you prefer some other elite, such as [[Peace and Harmony] then by all means go for it. I spent an hour debating whether to put an elite skill at all on this build, and [[Unyielding Aura] barely beat out the non-elite [[Extinguish] in my mind. Again, Healing Touch made the cut on the basis of the jacked Divine Favor. If you want your healer running back and forth from the bonder and the rest of the party wasting time, ditch the self-heal. Otherwise, let the bonder take care of himself and take care of the rest of the party.

Skyy High · Jan 07, 2009, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Creative. If I'm ever forced to play a bonder, I may run this, but I hate bonding.

Vazze · Jan 07, 2009, 01:29 AM // 01:29

@napalm Bonds: radar range, UA rez: casting range. Healing benefit? for the ~+20 heal from healing touch?

Bowstring Badass · Jan 07, 2009, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Seems almost useless.

Ariena Najea · Jan 07, 2009, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

@napalm
Bonds: radar range, UA rez: casting range. Healing benefit? for the ~+20 heal from healing touch?

It has already been stated that you do need to move closer in order to use Unyielding Aura, please read before you post. Also, Healing Touch at the specified attributes will heal for a total of 127 with the Divine Favor bonus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Seems almost useless.

I haven't run the actual numbers myself, but according to the "Save Yourselves!" GuildWiki page, "An increase of 100 armor reduces armor-affected damage by 82.32%". So just from SY!, the party (including the melee who usually use SY! themselves and thus do not gain its benefits) is taking only 17.68% of armor-affected damage. Now Life Bond comes into play, halving this, resulting in the party only taking 8.84% of armor-affected damage. This makes mobs cry, and for good reason. Combined with a reasonably-competent healer, the party is virtually invincible.

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Something else several posters seem to be missing is that with two healers, as opposed to one prot (bonder in our case) and one healer, often times energy will be wasted because both healers will be taking care of the same targets.

Another advantage of a bonder build over a standard prot build is that if the AI changes targets you are still safe. Pre protting only works with a dedicated tank, which also slows down runs because the party needs to wait for the tank to have all of the aggro before moving in. With a good bonder build, it's ok if part of a mob gets through.

Vazze · Jan 07, 2009, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

It has already been stated that you do need to move closer in order to use Unyielding Aura, please read before you post. Also, Healing Touch at the specified attributes will heal for a total of 127 with the Divine Favor bonus.

well I answered only to napalm, so that +20 is the bonus for HT from UA. Anyways, replying to you now: UA is still not that good here, your team (the backline at least) could benefit from a different elite (blight comes to my mind).

MrGuildBoi · Jan 07, 2009, 02:33 AM // 02:33

[chilblains] says hi or any other heavy disenchant

EDIT: Oh you already said something about this. Eh, cover enchants won't save you long :P you'll have to recast everything as well.

ac1inferno · Jan 07, 2009, 03:16 AM // 03:16

I would rather have this for a bonder:

[build prof=monk/mesme divine=10+1+(3) protec=11+(3) inspir=10][Life Barrier][Life Bond][Balthazar's Spirit][Blessed Signet][Mantra of Inscriptions (PvE)][optional][Ether Signet][Rebirth][/build]

or this if you really want to keep [[unyielding aura]:

[build prof=mo/e div=12+1+1 pro=12+1][divine healing][heavens delight][aegis (PvE)][protective spirit][dismiss condition][Shield of Absorption][gole][unyielding aura][/build]